The outgoing superintendent of the Protestant church district of Berlin city center, Bertold Höcker, calls for far-reaching structural reforms in the church. Höcker told the EDP (Protestant Press Service), "These include larger administrative units, abandoning the parochial principle, and the principle of local congregations." Höcker, 64, will leave office end of August.

Here is the interview:

epd: Mr. Höcker, your Wikipedia entry says you are an "unconventional reformer," especially concerning church structures. How is that to be understood?

Höcker: Unconventional means never losing heart. Even though the cause seems hopeless, keep going. Most people give up. Given our structures, that's not surprising. But that doesn't mean you can give up hope and confidence.

epd: Given your departure from the office, how do you look back?
Höcker: I have now been in office for 14 years. That's when you knock down a few pegs. A lot of things succeed, and a lot of things don't. Three examples: I introduced real estate development in the church district with my team. We have strengthened interfaith work and opened the church to queer lifestyles. These are three crucial achievements, although there is much more.

epd: Centralized real estate management under the umbrella of a church district is not necessarily new.

Höcker: In fact, it is not a reform. But here in the church district, we have the house line: No church will be abandoned. As a church district, we develop the churches that the congregations no longer need. For example, I mention the Reformation Church in Moabit, developed by a convent in 2011 as a cultural and event center, and the St. Simeon Church in Kreuzberg, Germany's first refugee church operating since 2015. The congregations abandoned both; the church district took them over; today, they are vital places of the protestant church's proclamation.

epd: But there are empty churches in Berlin's city center that are at least no longer used for services.

 Höcker: We don't have any empty churches. Church services are held in all the churches in our church district. It may only be twice a year, but services are held. That is a significant achievement: Wherever it says church on the outside, there is a church on the inside. We do not give away places of protestant proclamation as event locations or to secular sponsors. We don't do that. We develop these churches together with partners. We have even reopened churches that were closed during the communist dictatorship - the best example is the Zwingli Church in Friedrichshain.

epd: The church district has its own marketing company, "Besondere Orte" ("Special Places").

 Many people still need to become more accustomed to dealing economically with the resources entrusted to us. The purpose of a church can no longer be that it stands empty during the week. Instead, through the additional uses that "Special Places" organizes, we make it possible for church services to continue to take place there. If this did not happen, the churches would have to be abandoned, and the service would be extinguished. This must not be allowed to happen. The following applies: The additional uses must fit the place. The purpose of a church as a place of faith and worship must always be paramount.

 epd: So you are firmly against the abandonment of a church building?

 Höcker: Yes, absolutely. We don't have to go down that road. We can make vital places out of our churches everywhere. That takes time and a lot of effort. But giving up churches is not an alternative.

epd: Doesn't that contradict your goal of dissolving the parochial principle in urban congregations in favor of "church places" that stand for unique profiles?

Höcker: In my opinion, parochial structures are rather obstacles to the further development of churches. When we think in terms of "church places," we no longer think in terms of outdated legal structures. For a living proclamation, it doesn't matter what legal structure stands behind a church place. I am thinking not only of churches but also of Protestant schools, community centers, and diaconal stations; these are all church places.

epd: Would you also favor giving up the independence of church congregations?

Höcker: No. Then the church district would mutate into a large congregation. That would be a new construct. But the big problem is the increasing bureaucratization overtax voluntary bodies. This cannot continue. Take a look at the agendas of local church councils. Today, they hardly deal with theological issues at all but with a plethora of administrative tasks. It is already the case that small congregations can no longer apply most church laws, even though they are legally obligated to do so.

epd: For example?

Höcker: I only need to ask in a congregation: Where is your representative for protection against sexual abuse? Where is your occupational health and safety officer, the data protection officer? Where are the risk assessments? Not to mention this is getting worse and worse because we are transferring state structures into the church. But we can't manage that anymore.

epd: What is the solution?

Höcker: We need a church reform. We need an adapted structure for a church that is getting smaller. The goal must be to think in terms of church places of proclamation, no longer in terms of local congregations. A church district then not only assumes responsibility for all employees in the congregations and looks at who can best be deployed where according to their abilities. But also, the existing assets of the assemblies are merged, and the church locations are provided with sufficient resources. Church communities that historically have significant assets will then no longer be able to offer different services than communities that have nothing at all. Personnel and budget could be distributed in the future according to the principle of solidarity and the needs of a particular place. If we don't take these steps, our whole structure will collapse in the medium term.

 epd: What would this mean for the volunteer committees, which are also supposed to keep a watchful eye on the full-time staff?

 Höcker: The control bodies are essentially the administrations and the consistory. Having supervisory bodies with well-meaning people who don't understand the subject and are ultimately overwhelmed is useless.

 epd: Is that your résumé with regard to the district church council and the district synod?

Höcker:  Even a district church council is ultimately overburdened with everything it is responsible for. This is only possible if a highly professional administration is in the background to support it. That is why we have an efficient administrative office for two church districts. We need adapted structures. The current organizational structure is for a large company. But we are only a medium-sized company in terms of our size.

 epd: Are you also in favor of a minimum number of members for Berlin parishes?
Höcker: My proposal for the Berlin district would be that an independent church congregation in the city must have at least 3,000 members. The larger a congregation is, the more time the pastor has for pastoral work. It should also be large enough to hire professional management. The ideal size would be at least 6,000 to 8,000 members.

(epd)

published on July 16, 2023 by Evangelischer Pressedienst (epd), Landesdienst Ost. The questions were asked by Lukas Philippi, epd